Showing posts with label Don McGahn. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Don McGahn. Show all posts

Friday, June 17, 2022

January 25, 2108: The New York Times Reports - President Trump Wanted to Fire Robert Mueller

 

1/25/18: The New York Times reports that the president wanted to fire Robert Mueller last summer. This makes Sean Hannity furious. On his nightly show he calls the story “Fake News.” His sources cannot confirm the Times story. Boy does that piss Hannity off! He warns loyal Fox News fans the Times is “trying to distract you.” Trump would never think of firing….wait….what? 

Hannity is informed that, yes, Fox sources are confirming the story. What can a right-wing shill do in this situation? 

Hannity cuts to a car chase.




 

BLOGGER’S NOTE: For two years, President Trump stalls investigators in every way imaginable. That includes ignoring Congressional subpoenas and forbidding, for example, White House Chief Counsel Don McGahn from appearing before Congress to testify. This works until he leaves office. When McGahn appears, in June 2021, he tells lawmakers he repeatedly warned Trump. If he fired Mueller, it might constitute obstruction of justice. When the president kept pushing him to do so, McGahn said he knew he had to be prepared to resign. 

“It was the feeling of being trapped and being felt that I was being pushed to do something that was really not in the best interests of the president, in addition to my own concerns about my role,” McGahn said. “And I felt, at that point, you have to be prepared to walk away, particularly as a lawyer, in certain situations.”

 

McGahn also confirmed an incident cited in the Mueller Report. When Attorney General Jeff Sessions appointed the special counsel, Trump responded angrily, “This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency.” 

(For a bit more context, the full reaction was: “Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I’m fucked.”) 

McGahn bolstered several of the main contentions laid out by Robert Mueller and his team of investigators – and had he been allowed to testify earlier, might have sunk the president’s leaky boat. 

You might be able to twist the McGahn testimony to make it sound less damning, assuming you loved Trump more than chocolate sauce. 

He was basically confirming: 

A.      Trump did want to obstruct justice. He repeatedly asked to have Mueller fired. 

B.      McGahn didn’t want to have any part in firing Mueller, in part because he realized he might be subject to a felony charge of obstruction of justice if he carried out Trump’s orders. 

C.     Trump did explode when Attorney General Jeff Sessions appointed Mueller. 

D.     It worried McGahn (he testified further) when Trump started trying to remove Sessions. 

E.      That would be more obstruction of justice. 

F.      Trump lied, McGahn said, when he denied the accuracy of a report that Trump wanted to fire Mueller. 

G.     McGahn told lawmakers he was the source for that story. (See “A,” above.) 

H.    The “Fake News” wasn’t fake at all.

 

Trump’s exact words, when reporters asked him, on January 26, 2018, if he had ever tried to have Mueller fired, were, It’s “fake news, folks, fake news. Typical New York Times fake stories.”

Saturday, May 14, 2022

May 6, 2019: More than a Thousand Former DOJ Officials Believe Trump Obstructed Justice

 

5/6/19: Looks like the Democrats are going to need more chicken figurines (see: 5/2/19). President Trump has decided to invoke executive privilege to stop former White House Chief Counsel Don McGahn from testifying before Congress. This is necessary, in Trump’s view, mainly because McGahn might restate what he told Mueller’s investigators. That is: The boss repeatedly asked him to break the law.

 

____________________ 

“The Mueller report describes several acts that satisfy all of the elements for an obstruction charge.” 

Letter signed by more than a thousand former DOJ officials

____________________

 

 

Trump has time over the weekend to ponder the likelihood that if Mueller himself testifies he would blast the president’s claim of total exoneration to flinders. With that, he decides Special Counsel Mueller should not testify either.

 

* 

MORE THAN A THOUSAND former officials from the Department of Justice sign an open letter, noting that evidence in the Mueller Report does not exonerate the president. Just the opposite:

 

Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice [emphasis added].

 

They go on to say, “The Mueller report describes several acts that satisfy all of the elements for an obstruction charge,” citing, to give just one example, Trump’s “efforts to fire Mueller and to falsify evidence about that effort.” 


McGahn told Mueller's investigators that the president ordered him to break the law.

 

BLOGGER’S NOTE (6/17/21): It will be two years before Congress manages to get McGahn to testify, albeit behind closed doors. 

What does he say? He says the president did ask him to fire Robert Mueller. Repeatedly. Trump had repeatedly denied that he did. 

Asked how he felt about being pressured to do something illegal, McGahn told lawmakers, “After I got off the phone with the president, how did I feel? Oof. Frustrated, perturbed, trapped. Many emotions.” He “felt trapped,” he explained, “because the president had the same conversation with me repeatedly, and I thought I conveyed my views and offered my advice, and we were still having the same conversation.” 

McGahn said he refused to call Rod Rosenstein, at that time the acting attorney general, and ask him to fire Mueller. “If the acting attorney general received what he thought was a direction from the counsel to the president to remove a special counsel, he would either have to remove the special counsel or resign.” That is: break the law and help obstruct justice. As Trump desired. 

Or resign.

Friday, May 13, 2022

May 21, 2019: "Is This the Beginning of the End?"

 

5/21/19: Tuesday is a busy day for lawyers, as former White House Chief Counsel Don McGahn, bowing to presidential orders, refuses to appear for testimony before the House Judiciary Committee. Normally, communications between a president and aides are privileged. 

That is, they are not subject to review. 

McGahn has already talked at length with investigators, and his comments, outlined in the Mueller Report, hint strongly at obstruction of justice by the president. His previous testimony, when the White House waived privilege, may make it hard in court to claim privilege now. 

In any case, aides have often appeared before Congress and claimed “executive privilege” in declining to answer specific questions. 

It is unlikely that an aide can just blow off an appearance entirely. The courts will now have to decide.

 

Meanwhile, fresh subpoenas go out for Hope Hicks, one of Trump’s favorite aides, and a young woman who may very well have aided in obstruction of justice. Since her alleged involvement in obstruction predates Trump’s election, her testimony will almost surely be required. 

Also served a subpoena: Annie Donaldson, former White House Deputy Counsel and top associate of Mr. McGahn. She took daily notes of discussions involving the president, herself, and McGahn. 

Donaldson’s notes are often cryptic, as we learn if we read the Mueller Report. But when Trump rages about firing F.B.I. Director James Comey – because of the Russia investigation – she writes, “Is this the beginning of the end?”



Hope Hicks looking at a subpoena.

 

The evidence for obstruction of justice by the President of the United States continues to build. (See: 5/17/19.)

June 14, 2019: Either Trump Is Lying, or Don McGahn Is...Okay, It's Trump

 

6/14/19: A second segment of Trump’s interview with George Stephanopoulos airs – on the president’s birthday. The orange prevaricator claims former White House Chief Counsel Don McGahn was untruthful when he gave testimony under oath to Robert Mueller’s investigators. 

(Keep in mind: Trump’s lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, said his client would testify under oath over his dead body.)



Don McGahn, White House Chief Counsel.


 

____________________ 

McGahn testifies under oath; Trump won’t, but says McGahn is lying.

____________________

 

 

McGahn told Mueller that Trump ordered him to fire Mueller and end the Russia investigation. He says Trump asked more than once. When the “Fake News” folks got wind of this story, McGahn testified further, the president’s personal lawyer at the time, and two aides separately, asked him to sign a false document, saying Trump had never asked him to take such steps. 

The Mueller Report is clear. “Each time he was approached, McGahn responded that he would not refute the press accounts because they were accurate in reporting on the President’s efforts to have the Special Counsel removed.” 

Later, Trump met with McGahn, with Chief of Staff John Kelly present, and asked him to deny reports he wanted Mueller fired. 

“McGahn refused and insisted his memory of the President’s direction to remove the Special Counsel was accurate.” 

 

“Why would McGahn lie under oath?” 

So, what does Trump say now? “The story on that very simply, No. 1, I was never going to fire Mueller,” he tells George Stephanopoulos. “I never suggested firing Mueller. I don’t care what he [McGahn] says, it doesn’t matter. That was to show everyone what a good counsel he was.” 

“Why would McGahn lie under oath?” Stephanopoulos inquired. 

“Because he wanted to make himself look like a good lawyer,” Trump replied. “Or he believed it was because I would constantly tell anybody that would listen — including you, including the media — that Robert Mueller was conflicted. Robert Mueller had a total conflict of interest.” 

“And has to go?” Stephanopoulos responded. 

I didn’t say that,” Trump glared.

 

Here, by way of the Washington Post, is what the Mueller Report says in this regard. McGahn stated under oath, that Trump had twice called him from Camp David and directed him to remove Mueller. 

The report says phone records show a 23-minute call between the two men on the afternoon of June 17, but not a second call. McGahn is certain he got two calls from Trump on this issue, so the first one may have been on June 14.

 

“On the first call, McGahn recalled that the President said something like, ‘You gotta do this. You gotta call Rod [Rosenstein; then in charge at the Department of Justice],’” the report said, citing testimony under oath. “McGahn said he told the President that he would see what he could do. McGahn was perturbed by the call and did not intend to act on the request.”

 

The report added: “McGahn considered the President’s request to be an inflection point [emphasis added] and he wanted to hit the brakes.”

 

On the second call, Trump was more direct, “saying something like, ‘Call Rod, tell Rod that Mueller has conflicts and can’t be the Special Counsel.’ McGahn recalled the President telling him ‘Mueller has to go’ and ‘Call me back when you do it.’” The report said that “McGahn understood the President to be saying that the Special Counsel had to be removed by Rosenstein.”

 

In other words, we must decide, once again. Is Trump lying? 

Or McGahn? 

(The White House is vehemently opposed to a subpoena for McGahn and his top aide, Annie Donaldson, to testify before Congress.)

 

* 

SCIENTISTS report that Greenland lost two gigatons of ice in a single day. That’s two billion tons of ice. 

How much ice are we talking about melting in one 24-hour period? That’s enough to cover the National Mall in Washington D.C. to a height eight times greater than the Washington Monument. 

In a day. (See also: 6/29/19)


Imagine water eight times as deep.


 

POSTSCRIPT: We know the president doesn’t believe in climate change; and we know the people he has appointed to head up agencies that exist to protect the environment don’t really bother. 

Newly released emails reveal that Team Trump decided last year that it would be great if the EPA could send four top officials to speak to a meeting of the Cooler Heads Coalition, a group formed to push climate change denial and funded by the American Petroleum Institute, among others. 

This visit was not disclosed before – no surprise, really – because it would have been embarrassing in the extreme. Trump’s first EPA head, Scott Pruitt, was a bigtime climate change denier. After he got booted amid numerous investigations into shady practices, he was replaced by Andrew Wheeler, whose previous environmental-protection efforts involved working as a lobbyist for Big Coal, which would be the same as placing the head of a drug cartel in charge of the DEA.

 

So far, Wheeler has “protected” the environment by rolling back regulations meant to curb mercury emissions from coal-fired plants and pushing to increase the use of ethanol in gasoline during summer months. The gasoline-ethanol mix increases smog in warmer months. 

We’ll let government scientists explain the dangers of mercury poisoning: 

It affects the immune system, alters genetic and enzyme systems, and damages the nervous system, including coordination and the senses of touch, taste, and sight. Methylmercury is particularly damaging to developing embryos, which are five to ten times more sensitive than adults.

 

So, if you like to fish, in the future you might want to think twice about eating what you catch. Mercury buildup in the tissue of fish has long been a problem. Over the years at least forty states have had to issue advisories for select bodies of water, warning anglers not to consume certain types of fish. Thirteen states had statewide advisories “for some or all sportfish from rivers or lakes.” Wide swaths of the coast were under mercury warnings, as well. 

But, hey, it’s only your central nervous system at risk. So, as they like to say on Team Trump, “Let’s pollute!”

Wednesday, May 11, 2022

July 24, 2019: The Day Robert Mueller Made It Clear Trump Was a Liar

 

7/24/19: Robert Mueller testifies for nearly six hours in front of two congressional panels. He refuses to go beyond what the report he has submitted says. For example, he refuses to say if the president “took the Fifth” in answering written questions. Mueller is precise, measured in response, even dull. 

Almost as soon as he completes his time on the stand, the partying at the White House begins. There are no “bombshells” in the televised testimony. The president will later call Mueller’s performance the worst in all the storied history of congressional hearings. 

Total exoneration, baby!



Mueller testifies under oath - something you never saw Trump do.

 

*

____________________ 

“I gather you think knowingly accepting foreign help in an election is an unethical thing to do?” 

Rep. Adam Schiff

____________________

 

 

IF YOU WATCHED all six hours of testimony – and took notes – you know the president was not exonerated. 

Dull or not, the facts Mueller laid out were damning. 

It will require a special blog post to address this topic; but a few highlights should suffice till then. First, Mueller slapped away the idea that he had hired a team of “angry Democrats” to frame Trump. In twenty-five years with the Justice Department he had never inquired about the political leanings of any of his hires. “It just isn’t done,” he told a Republican lawmaker who questioned him. He hired lawyers he felt could do the best work, men and women he knew for “integrity,” above all. 

In six hours of questioning, not one Republican member of either committee used the word “integrity” to describe Donald R. Trump. 

Meanwhile, Democrats focused on massive evidence of obstruction of justice. We learned, for example, that Trump called Attorney General Jeff Sessions at home and tried to get him to un-recuse himself and fire Mueller. Trump ordered White House Counsel Don McGahn to get rid of Mueller, too. 

“Did the president ask McGahn to lie?” one questioner asked Mueller. The Special Counsel often answered with one word. 

“Yes,” he said. 

Dull? Okay. But the Special Counsel had just said the president lied – and lied in a failed attempt to obstruct justice.

 

When Louis Gohmert (R-Texas) had his turn to speak and rambled on for five minutes and tried to make Mueller sound like he was on trial, Mueller’s response was, “I take your question.” Nothing more. 

Mueller had his dignity to consider. 

Gohmert was a clown. 

Jim Jordan (R-OH) spent his five minutes asking why Mueller never charged Josef Mifsud, a secondary figure in the investigation, as if something nefarious must have been afoot. 

The real problem: Mifsud has disappeared. 

Neither Jordan nor any other Republican wanted to know why the following members of Team Trump were now convicted felons: Paul Manafort, Rick Gates, General Michael T. Flynn, Michael Cohen, George Papadopoulos – and probably Roger Stone – currently under indictment for witness tampering and scheduled for trial this fall. 

 

“I hope this is not the new normal, but I fear it is.” 

Mueller was also asked, “Isn’t it true that an unsuccessful attempt to obstruct justice is still a crime?” 

“Correct,” he said. He did not elaborate because the statement stands as made. 

Rep. Mike Johnson had the closing five minutes for the Republican side during the first hearing and tried to insist that President Trump had never mislead anyone and cooperated fully.

 

In the second session, Val Demings, a Florida Democrat and former police chief of Orlando, asked Mueller why his team never asked Trump to sit down, face to face, and testify under oath. 

Mueller explained that the president and his lawyers had stalled the investigation for over a year. It was important to turn the report over to Attorney General William Barr, so he might make the decision about what to do next. 

Mueller admitted that Trump left several questions, submitted in writing by investigators, blank. 

“Did he plead the Fifth?” Demings wanted to know. 

Mueller refused to answer. “I’m not going to get into that,” he replied. He was sticking to what was in the report.

 

The rest of her questioning went pretty much like this: 

“Trump did not answer follow up questions?” Demings asked, trying a different tack. 

“No.” 

“Many questions he didn’t answer at all?” 

“True.” 

“His answers were often contradictory and incomplete?” 

“True.” 

Did he give answers that “contradicted other evidence?” 

“Yes.” 

Could the Special Counsel say that “the President was credible?” 

Mueller: “I can’t answer that question.” 

Is it fair to say, she asked, that Trump’s answers “showed that he wasn’t always being truthful?” 

“I would say, generally.” 

Those are the exact answers Mueller gave – what pundits were saying made for “boring” TV. 

Mueller wasn’t a TV prosecutor. He was a real prosecutor, with decades of enforcement experience. He was laying out facts. He did not need to showboat, like GOP lawmakers trying to make absurd points. All the evidence anyone might need to begin impeachment was there in the Mueller Report.

 

The best exchange of the day may have come when, during afternoon hearings, Adam Schiff, the Democratic chair of the House Intelligence Committee, asked Mueller a series of simple questions. 

“I gather you think knowingly accepting foreign help in an election is an unethical thing to do?” Schiff inquired. 

And a crime,” Mueller interjected, his stoic manner momentarily animated. 

“And unpatriotic?” Schiff added. 

“True.” 

“And wrong?” 

“True,” Mueller said again, displaying a trace of disgust, no doubt with the current occupant of the Oval Office.

 

Republicans, and Trump’s avid fans, who purport to love this country far more than his opponents, should try to remember a time when their Orange God ever said we need to protect elections from Russian interference. Mueller might not have stirred the masses with his answers; but he was perfectly clear when he said Russian interference in our elections was “among the most serious” challenges he had seen in all his years in law enforcement. 

Russia, he said in answer to a question from Rep. Will Hurd, the only member of his party to ask about Russians all day, did interfere in the 2016 election. 

They would interfere again. They were, he warned, still interfering “as we speak.” 

A Democrat asked the Special Counsel if he thought this was the “new normal,” that politicians would accept help from foreign powers to win future elections. “I hope this is not the new normal,” Mr. Mueller replied, “but I fear it is.”


BLOGGER’S NOTE (5/11/22): Team Trump blocked testimony by Don McGahn for nearly two more years, until the courts beat down the last challenge, and he went before Congress in June 2021. McGahn told lawmakers that Trump kept pressing him to have Mueller removed as Special Counsel, that he felt “trapped” by the president’s orders, and that he was prepared to resign if pressed to break the law. 

That should tell you something.

Sunday, April 24, 2022

November 25, 2019: Judge Rules that Don McGahn Must Testify Before Congress

 

11/25/19: U.S. District Court judge, Ketanji Brown Jackson, rules against the Trump administration in a critical case. At issue is whether or not the White House can ignore a subpoena calling on Don McGahn, former Chief Counsel, to come before the House Judiciary Committee and give testimony. In her 120-page opinion, Judge Jackson rules that the answer is no. McGahn must appear.


 

____________________ 

“Stated simply, the primary takeaway from the past 250 years of recorded American history is that Presidents are not kings.” 

U.S. District Court Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson

____________________

  

In a powerful opinion, Jackson writes: 

Stated simply, the primary takeaway from the past 250 years of recorded American history is that Presidents are not kings. This means that they do not have subjects, bound by loyalty or blood, whose destiny they are entitled to control. Rather, in this land of liberty, it is indisputable that current and former employees of the White House work for the People of the United States, and that they take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. Moreover, as citizens of the United States, current and former senior-level presidential aides have constitutional rights, including the right to free speech, and they retain these rights even after they have transitioned back into private life.

 

The argument that had been put forth by President Trump’s lawyers, that Trump aides had “absolute immunity” from testifying, Jackson labeled a “fiction.” 

Blatant defiance of Congress’ power to compel witnesses to testify, she calls “an affront to the mechanism for curbing abuses of power that the Framers carefully crafted for our protection.”

 

BLOGGER’S NOTE 4/23/2022): The judge has since been elevated to a seat on the U.S. Supreme Court, with only three Republican senators voting for her confirmation. Because, the GOP has become the party that ignores real abuse of power.

Monday, April 18, 2022

January 26, 2020: In Trump Eyes, John Bolton Goes from Patriot to Liar

 

1/26/20: Sunday morning, an obviously irate president posts one of his more ominous tweets. “Shifty Adam Schiff is a CORRUPT POLITICIAN, and probably a very sick man,” he complains. “He has not paid the price, yet, for what he has done to our Country!” 

A “sick man? Like a psychopath? 

And what price? 

Dean Obeidallah responds perfectly on Twitter: “Trump saying today that Adam Schiff has ‘not paid the price’ is a THREAT. Period. It’s like when a mob boss threatens prosecutors. But instead of coming from a mob boss it’s coming from the head of the Republican Party. And the rest of the GOP is silent.” 

Trump’s approval rate has risen to 45.6% in an average of all polls.



Rep. Adam Schiff.


 

* 

HOPEFULLY, HE’LL take a hit to his ratings soon. Sunday afternoon, a draft proposal for a book by former National Security Advisor John Bolton leaks to the press. The book, titled, The Room Where It Happened: A White House Memoir, is scheduled for release March 17. 

We won’t know until we see what Bolton has to offer; but he is reported to have written that President Trump told him, specifically, to hold military aid to Ukraine till our allies agreed to investigate the Democrats and Bidens. 

That’s the heart of the matter. The president put Ukrainian security and U.S. interests at risk. 

For…. 

            ….his own…. 

                                    ….self-serving interests.

 

____________________ 

“John Bolton is a patriot and may know that I held back the money from Ukraine because it is considered a corrupt country, & I wanted to know why nearby European countries weren’t putting up money also.” 

President Trump

____________________

  

This new development in his impeachment spurs our fearless leader to respond again on Twitter. 

By the way, Trump may never hold a real press conference again. He knows, if he ever does, that members of the free press would bombard him with questions. This would force him to: 

A)    Lie. 

B)     Ramble on about toilets that are hell to flush, get confused, and tell the truth inadvertently. 

C)    Get mad, tell any questioner who works for CNN to shut up, and call the White House press corps “Enemies of the People.” 

D)   All of the above. 

At any rate, Trump feels an urge to say something about the Bolton revelations. Suddenly, he announces that his third choice to head the National Security Council is a liar. Once again, we have to ask: How terrible is his judgment? He had to fire his second NSC head. And his first choice got indicted.

 

Trump outlines his position in a series of tweets: 

I NEVER told John Bolton that the aid to Ukraine was tied to investigations into Democrats, including the Bidens. In fact, he never complained about this at the time of his very public termination. If John Bolton said this, it was only to sell a book. With that being said, the..

 

..transcripts of my calls with President Zelensky are all the proof that is needed, in addition to the fact that President Zelensky & the Foreign Minister of Ukraine said there was no pressure and no problems. Additionally, I met with President Zelensky at the United Nations...

 

...(Democrats said I never met) and released the military aid to Ukraine without any conditions or investigations - and far ahead of schedule. I also allowed Ukraine to purchase Javelin anti-tank missiles. My Administration has done far more than the previous Administration.

 

There are a number of dubious claims included in those triple tweets. Let’s stick with two. First, Trump is almost surely lying. Multiple witnesses who came before the House investigators said it was their “understanding” that aid was held up until Ukraine acceded to demands for an investigation. We know Trump asked for that very favor in his “perfect” phone call. Now Bolton is saying that the other witnesses were correct. 

The president told him: No investigation, no military aid for Ukraine. And Bolton would have firsthand knowledge. 

Second, we know that Congress appropriated $250 million in order to provide military assistance in May 2019. The Pentagon announced plans to disburse the aid in June. That package and another $141 million earmarked for Ukraine by the State Department were placed on hold no later than June 19. The aid was delayed for weeks by subterfuge, including inserting footnotes in lengthy DOD documents. On July 25, Mr. Trump called President Zelensky and told him he would like a favor. He would like the Ukrainians to conduct investigations, including one that would target Hunter and Joe Biden. 

The aid was held up through August and released only on September 11, after Congress began investigating. 

It was not released “far ahead of schedule.”

 

* 

THE CHANGE in tone from the president is nearly identical to the change we saw when he realized Michael Cohen was going to turn against him. To compare Trump’s current position to what was said about Bolton in the past, consider these tweets, from November 26: 

The D.C. Wolves and Fake News Media are reading far too much into people being forced by Courts to testify before Congress. I am fighting for future Presidents and the Office of the President. Other than that, I would actually like people to testify. Don McGahn’s respected....

 

...lawyer has already stated that I did nothing wrong. John Bolton is a patriot and may know that I held back the money from Ukraine because it is considered a corrupt country, & I wanted to know why nearby European countries weren’t putting up money also. Likewise, I would....

 

...love to have Mike Pompeo, Rick Perry, Mick Mulvaney and many others testify about the phony Impeachment Hoax. It is a Democrat Scam that is going nowhere but, future Presidents should in no way be compromised. What has happened to me should never happen to another President!

 

Another point of order: McGahn did not state, when interviewed by Robert Mueller, that the president “did nothing wrong.” 

He said under oath that Trump asked him to take actions that he believed would constitute obstruction of justice.

 

* 

THE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL continues. There’s not much reason to watch. Democrats keep citing facts. 

Republicans keep insisting they don’t have enough facts to prove Trump is a sneaking, conniving bum. 

So, he must be innocent.